WLRN Edition 23: Analysis of Rape Culture and the #METOO Movement
Transcribed by Natasha Y.B. and Julia Beck
“Real Voice” by Thistle Pettersen:
But through the hallways of academia
And on the face of the moon
The footprints of conquest
Haven’t left us any room
To say what we think, or
To speak what we know
To hear different voices
At least a sound from below.
NATASHA: Greetings and welcome to the 23rd edition podcast of Women’s Liberation Radio News. The team at WLRN produces a monthly radio broadcast to break the sound barrier women are blocked by under the status quo rule of men. This blocking of women’s discourse we see in all sectors of society, be they conservative, liberal, mainstream, progressive or radical. The thread that runs through all of American politics, except for separatist feminism, is male dominance and entitlement in all spheres. This is Natasha.
This month’s edition analyzes rape culture and the #MeToo Movement. We will hear excerpts from interviews with Jyssica Schwartz and a joint interview with Shelly Ruzicka and Rocio Caravantes. This month we will be fulfilling orders from our first ever t-shirt design contest, with portions of the proceeds going to the We Want the Land Coalition. If you pre-ordered a t-shirt with Kacie Mills’ winning design, keep an eye out for that special delivery from your sisters at WLRN Threadbare Print House. But first, here are the WLRN headlines for this Thursday, March 1, 2018, as prepared and read by Sekhmet She-Owl.
Sekhmet SHEOWL: An online survey conducted by the non-profit organization Stop Street Harassment found that 81% of women have experienced sexual harassment in the U.S.
A special report released by NBC News on February 23rd examined the sexual harassment female doctors and nurses experience in the medical profession. Around 30% of female healthcare professionals report having experience sexual harassment on the job, and this harassment comes not only from male colleagues but from patients and their family members. Mainstream medicine remains a male-dominated profession in the U.S., with male doctors outnumbering female doctors two to one.
On February 17, Renee Gerlich and a friend of hers marched in Auckland New Zealand’s Pride parade holding a banner reading: “Stop Giving Kids Sex Hormones – Protect Lesbian Youth.” She has since been predictably criticized and condemned online by trans activists and their supporters; she has also received praise and support from all over the globe.
Andrew MacLeod, former chief of operations in emergency coordination at the UN, estimated male UN aid workers and peacekeeping staff have committed up to 60,000 rapes over the last decade, against both adults and children. He also claims the organization has employed over 3,000 pedophiles. Malayah Harper, formerly with UN Aids, adds that female staff at the UN are routinely sexually harassed or assaulted.
Investigative journalists at The Times UK exposed British megacharity OxFam’s alleged sex crimes against female civilians in Haiti. Senior male officials engaged in paid rape with Haitian women while stationed in Haiti following the catastrophic earthquake there in 2010. OxFam’s male civilian aid workers may have also raped Haitian children. OxFam allegedly covered up these crimes at the time of their internal investigation in Haiti. Following the revelation of these crimes, former OxFam staff made additional claims of paid rape by charity officials in the African country of Chad.
Italian politician and former UN spokeswoman Laura Boldrini faces an ongoing onslaught of death and rape threats by men as she campaigns for re-election. Boldrini is the highest-ranking female politician in Italy, the President of the Chamber of Deputies. Her platform includes pro-woman and anti-racist policies and values.
As professional snowboarder Shaun White competed in the Winter Olympics this past month, new details surfaced in the lawsuit his former bandmate Lena Zawaideh filed against him last year. She accuses White of forcing her to watch disturbing pornography, sending her pictures of male erections, forcing her to wear sexually provocative clothes when performing, and sexually harassing her in other ways.
The lawyer representing a 29-year-old French man on trial for raping an 11 year old girl argued in court that the girl was a not a child. France does not have a legal age of sexual consent. Last year, a 30 year old man there was acquitted for raping an 11 year old girl on the grounds he had not used violence or coercion.
The trial of 17 year old Palestinian protestor Ahed Tamimi has begun in Israel. Tamimi was arrested last year by Israeli forces for slapping and kicking Israeli soldiers. A different group of IDF soldiers shot Tamimi’s then 15 year old cousin in the head with rubber bullets during a confrontation they had with Palestinian protestors. Tamimi has explained her attack of the soldiers was retaliation. If convicted, she could spend several years in Israeli prison. Israeli culture minister Miri Regev said of Tamimi: “She is not a little girl, she is a terrorist. It’s about time they will understand that people like her have to be in jail and not be allowed to incite racism and subversion against the state of Israel.” Palestinian demonstrations against Israel are not allowed in occupied Palestinian territories.
The most recent crime survey conducted in England and Wales found that one in five women have been sexually assaulted there in the last 12 months. More than 80% of victims have not reported their assaults to police. Half of all female homicide victims were murdered by their male partners or ex-partners.
The Canadian federal government has filed a motion to strike a class action lawsuit filed against them by women sexually assaulted in the military, claiming it does not owe military members a safe and harassment-free workplace. More specifically, the motion states: the government has no duty “to create policies to prevent sexual harassment or sexual assault which are already prohibited by the Canadian Human Rights Act.”
Former White House aide Rob Porter resigned from his position in the Trump administration after both of his ex-wives publicly disclosed he had physically abused them. The FBI had denied Porter full security clearance because of the allegations, but the White House hired and retained him anyway.
In Canada, Raymond Cormier was found not guilty of second degree murder. He was accused of raping and murdering 15 year old Tina Fontaine, an indigenous girl, in 2014. Tina’s body was found in Winnipeg’s Red River, wrapped in a duvet cover and weighed down with rocks. She weighed 72 pounds. Cormier was recorded talking about raping and killing Tina without his knowledge, but there was no forensic evidence or eyewitness reports linking him to her murder.
A 41-year-old Russian woman, Svetlana Sapogova, was brutally raped and murdered by a 19 year old male acquaintance after she accepted a ride home from him. Her killer confessed to the crimes upon arrest.
110 Nigerian girls are missing after the Islamic terrorist gang Boko Haram attacked their school in Dapchi last week. This is the largest number of girls Boko Haram has kidnapped since 2014, when they kidnapped 276 girls in Chibok. The Chibok kidnappings inspired the worldwide hashtag “Bring Back Our Girls.” 100 Chibok girls remain missing. The Nigerian government has deployed military personnel to search for the missing Dapchi schoolgirls.
Marvel’s Black Panther film opened worldwide with record-breaking ticket sales. Fans and film critics laud the movie in part for its inclusion and positive depiction of dark-skinned black women. The female cast members include Lupita N’yongo, Letitia Wright, Angela Basset, and Danai Gurira.
The US Women’s Hockey team took home the gold medal at the Winter Olympics after beating Canada 3 to 2. It’s been 20 years since the US Women’s team last won Olympic gold.
* Song Interlude*
If it weren’t for your maturity none of this would have happened
If you weren’t so wise beyond your years I would’ve been able to control myself
If it weren’t for my attention you wouldn’t have been successful, and
If it weren’t for me you would never have amounted to very much
Ooh, this could be messy
But you don’t seem to mind
Ooh, don’t go telling everybody
And overlook this supposed crime
We’ll fast forward to a few years later, and
No one knows except the both of us
I have honored your request for silence
You’ve washed your hands clean of this
You’re essentially an employee and I like you having to depend on me
You’re a kind of my protégé and one day you’ll say you learned all you know from me
I know you depend on me like a young thing would to a guardian
I know you sexualize me like a young thing would and I think I like it
Ooh, this could get messy
But you don’t seem to mind
Ooh, don’t go telling everybody
And overlook this supposed crime
We’ll fast forward to a few years later
And no one knows except the both of us
I’ve more than honored your request for silence
And you’ve washed your hands clean of this
What part of our history is reinvented and under rug swept?
What part of your memory is selective and tends to forget?
What with this distance it seems so obvious?
Jenna INTERVIEW INTRO: That was “Hands Clean” by Alanis Morissette. Our first interview today is with Jyssica Schwartz. Jyssica is a writer, editor, and book coach. She holds a Bachelor’s degree from the University of Florida and has always been a writer, even before she was getting paid.
Jyssica SCHWARTZ: I am 31. I live in Brooklyn, NY. I wanted to be a writer my whole life, but I spent ten years in sales and corporate business development until one day I was 30, I woke up, and I realized that I needed to just try. What could it hurt? I ended up taking writing clients on the side, and three months later I quit my job. I was able to be a full-time writer and editor, so it’s been over a year.
Basically when I saw all of the #MeToo starting in October of last year, I couldn’t help but realize that it’s obviously something. It was quickly coming completely relevant in the news, and people were really responding to it. One of the things I kept seeing were people saying, “I have a daughter, I have a mother, I have a sister, so I understand, I can be compassionate.” I kept coming back to the thought that it’s not about needing someone to justify your feelings. You should just know that half the human race are women, and they deserve autonomy, and they deserve to not be attacked. So I kind of just went with it.
I have a lot of compassion. I truly love what I do with writing. I figured I have the capacity and the ability to publish a book and put it together, have the vendors to do formatting and cover design and marketing, so I just ran with it. I put out a call on social media that I was accepting stories. I just wanted to see what would happen, and I ended up with over 50 of them.
Thistle PETTERSON: Oh wow. So are you having to turn some stories away?
SCHWARTZ: In the actual process of putting together the book, I think I only turned away one, and that was only because it didn’t fit. It was from a male, and it was from a perspective of, “It was me.” It was from a perspective of someone who realized that he had been making women that he wanted to date uncomfortable without knowing it and eventually how he realized that and was able to overcome that and, through therapy, really understand where he was coming from. It was a really, really well-told story that was actually from a friend of mine. It just didn’t fit with the rest of the stories.
Since finishing the book, I have 56 stories, and the book is being released on March 14. Since I actually completed it and stopped accepting submissions, I’ve had about fifteen more come in. What I’ve done is I’m not turning them away, I’m just letting them know that the book is already completed and I can’t accept the submissions; however, there has been interest in a potential second volume, so I’ve been just holding onto their names and emails and keeping their stories in a Gmail folder.
PETTERSON: Wonderful. Your book is coming out March 14, you said, and there will be 56 firsthand accounts, stories, of primarily women who are talking about sexual harassment and abuse that they have experienced throughout society. Are they mostly workplace stories?
SCHWARTZ: Not many of them are workplace stories. Some are for sure, but a lot of them, I mean, it’s everything from workplace harassment to incredibly graphic stories of rape and assault from friends or family members or someone they were dating. Some of it is very graphic, and some is not.
I’m so, so lucky that I was able to be a part of this, because I’ve really gotten to meet some incredible people, and so many of the contributors to the book are not writers. They’re not trying to be putting themselves on a platform or making themselves famous. They’re not doing this for attention. In fact, a lot of them actually are anonymous. I allowed any contributor to give me a fake name. I just requested their real age and location, and I have stories from around the world. The majority of them are from the U.S. but that’s where my reach is, and that’s where people were finding me. I have stories from the United Arab Emirates, Australia, Spain, Russia, I think I have one from Scotland. It’s been an incredible outpouring of support, and more importantly, it genuinely feels like I’m giving a voice to people who just felt unheard.
They’re writing it anonymously, because they just want to get it out there. So many of them have told me that the writing process has been cathartic for them, which is really how I’ve always found the writing process to be. A part of healing, and a part of dealing with trauma.
PETTERSON: The main perpetrators of sexual violence are men, and the main victims are women. Do you use the term “male violence against women”?
SCHWARTZ: I do not, at least not in the book. The book is primarily female, although we do have eight stories from men. Honestly, the ones from men are usually perpetrated by men as well. My focus in the book is on victims and survivors and not on their gender, because the way I have always thought about it is: though 1 in 4 women are going to be abused or assaulted, the statistic is completely surprising when you think 1 in 6 men are actually abused or assaulted as well. The difference is that for men it typically happens in childhood more often than adulthood, and men are far less likely to come forward. I tried not to negate anyone’s experience. I really was trying to put the focus on victims and trauma and surviving, and not really negate someone’s experience just because they’re a guy.
PETTERSON: Are you afraid that you’ll come across as a man hater or not inclusive if you emphasize that sexual violence is largely something done to women by men? Because largely that’s the case. That’s what the statistic-
SCHWARTZ: Yeah, no not at all. I am not a man hater. I certainly identify as a feminist. I don’t believe I’ll come across that way, and if some people believe I am, I can’t change people’s mind.
PETTERSON: You won’t come across that way, because you’re not emphasizing that this is a problem of male violence against women. You’re saying that this is a problem of violence, and there are victims and survivors. There’s not really a gender analysis in that. It’s more of saying that anybody can be a victim and anybody can be-
SCHWARZ: I mean I do focus more on women than men by a significant margin. Something like 45 or 46 of the stories are women in the book. I actually have a section at the end with statistics showing the prevalence of violence against women. While I do include a couple of statistics about men as well, it is certainly more heavily focused on women and the violence against women perpetrated by men. I’m just not coming out and saying that it’s a women’s only problem, because I believe that it’s a victim problem. It’s a power and control issue. These men who are perpetrating violence against women and other men, it’s generally about control and power and dominating another person. To me, it’s more about, regardless of gender, it’s about the violence and about the lack of autonomy and control.
PETTERSON: Women are 52% of the population. We can’t help that we’re born with the anatomy that we’re born with.
SCHWARTZ: Absolutely.
PETTERSON: And yet it’s that anatomy that makes us vulnerable to male sexual violence. In my opinion, I think it’s important to name the problem of male violence against women, but I get what you’re saying about making sure that those men who are in the smaller percentage of people who are victims also have a way to tell their stories, and that largely the perpetrators of violence against them are also men.
SCHWARTZ: Absolutely. These stories are written by the victims in their own words. Some of it’s incredibly graphic. Some of it’s incredibly emotional. It truly is about focusing on the act of violence. In most of the stories, it absolutely is going to be violence against women by men. One of the things that I try to do is, I’m attempting somewhat, as just a moderator. I’m just allowing them to tell their stories. I’m not passing judgment on any of the victims. That’s not my role in any way. It’s all about, for me, it was genuinely about getting it out there. I don’t have a huge platform. I’m not some famous writer. I don’t have to worry about my reputation, and I don’t care about that. I just wanted to put something out there that was real and true, and showed the face of victims in a way that- you know, having the #MeToo Movement and being able to post on your social media is one thing, but being able to feel like you’re truly getting out there and helping others by telling your own story has been incredible.
One of the things that I write in the book is simply that the #MeToo Movement is about provoking conversation and forcing men and perpetrators to see the human beings in their lives who’ve been affected by sexual harassment and violence, but I make a point of saying it should not even remotely be a surprise. You’re allowed to be sad. You’re allowed to be horrified, but you can’t lie and say you’re surprised when 99% of sexual violence perpetrators walk free, and dress codes are heavily skewed towards women having to cover so the boys can learn. I even say that in a world where my uterus is federally regulated, where it’s harder to get an abortion than a gun, you’re not allowed to be surprised when every woman you know has been harassed or assaulted.
PETTERSON: Right. This definitely is a problem of misogyny and sexism in our society, just like with slavery: there were a few white slaves here and there, but largely that was a problem of racism and a hatred of black people. That’s how I see it. I see it as a problem of male violence against women.
SCHWARTZ: And I would wholly agree with that, that it’s a problem of male violence, both against women and men, but primarily against women. It is a problem of male violence; however, because I wasn’t the one passing judgment, I wasn’t saying male violence is the problem. What I was saying is, “Here are their stories in their own words. Read what happened to them.”
PETTERSON: Giving them a platform. What do you hope will happen with this book after the release on March 14?
SCHWARTZ: I don’t know. My original goal was just keep the conversation going. It wasn’t about being first to market. It’s not about making money. In fact, I’m donating some of the proceeds to the RAINN organization and Girls for Gender Equity, which is the Brooklyn-based nonprofit that Tarana Burke is involved in, and it’s hers. It was about keeping the conversation going. I was so afraid that because of our news cycle and the 24 hours where everything is happening so quickly that the #MeToo Movement would start to die out, and people would start to forget and stop reporting on it in the news and stop taking it so seriously. I feel like we’ve become so desensitized to horrible news: everything between the school shootings and Donald Trump being an idiot on Twitter and just everything that is coming together to desensitize us to violence in our world. I was just about it ending before someone got the chance to tell their side. Before somebody could keep the conversation going in some way.
PETTERSON: Where can our listeners find the book in case they want to order one?
SCHWARTZ: Oh, absolutely. I am going to have it listed. It’s going to be on Amazon both as an ebook and as a physical paperback copy, but I also plan to put it on my website with a link to Amazon so people can find it if they look me up. The title of the book is You Are Not Alone. I’m really, really proud of the cover. It’s dark almost to the point of aggression, which is exactly what I wanted. It’s You Are Not Alone, and the whole point is just, I want people to see that it’s not just you. So many of the writers in this book have told me that, you know, “I’ve never told anyone. This is the first time I’ve written it down.” Or, “This is the first time I’ve written the whole story.” It’s incredible that they’re willing to share it with me whether anonymous or not. Many people chose not to be anonymous simply because they wanted to truly tell their story.
PETTERSON: And to break through some of that shame that’s there.
SCHWARTZ: Exactly, and I think in a collaboration like this where they know that it’s not just them. It’s not their book and their story that’s standing alone to the world.
PETTERSON: Right, it’s a bunch of writers standing together. That’s great. Final question. We operate as a collective, so we all work together. We have a virtual newsroom, and some of these questions were generated by my colleagues at Women’s Liberation Radio News. Do you think that men are the oppressors of women?
SCHWARTZ: You know, that’s a difficult question, because I think in many cases when you look at history, the answer would be yes, in many cases, but not in all cases. You also have issues where women are holding themselves back. In many ways, it’s getting to a point where it’s not so much oppression as it is women being afraid to ask what they want. When it comes to confidence, women are not taught how to ask for raises or to go after this incredibly ambitious job that they want. Women, from childhood, by both of their parents, are told, “You can be whatever you want,” but are often steered towards more traditionally feminine jobs, or steered towards keeping the peace or not making a fuss. It’s so prevalent.
Think about dating. When women are dating, they’re told to not be too confident, not be too strong. It’ll come off as intimidating. Instead of looking for someone who wants a strong, ambitious partner. I’m very lucky in that my husband is incredibly supportive, and he loves the fact that I’m incredibly ambitious and strong. I know how to get what I want, and I’ve learned how to ask for it. I value my self-worth, and I value my confidence, and I don’t care what people think of me on a regular basis. So many women, by their parents, by the structure of schooling and the structure of jobs in America especially, are kind of just told that confidence isn’t sexy. Too much confidence isn’t sexy. They don’t know how to ask for a raise or promotion, and it keeps them from going after what they want. I fear that in some ways, we keep ourselves a little bit oppressed.
PETTERSON: Internalized misogyny and systemic sexism-
SCHWARTZ: Absolutely. Absolutely. Systemic misogyny is a huge part of it. We want so badly to be liked that we forget that our own self-worth comes from within.
PETTERSON: Getting back to men as the oppressors women, do you think that there is good reason for women to be skeptical of men when they present themselves as allies? Because I know there are cases of men using their allyship to manipulate and then eventually abuse women.
SCHWARTZ: Abusers, whether they’re male or female, are incredibly manipulative. They tend to be very effervescent and charismatic. I mean, look at cult leaders, which, yeah, again, traditionally men. It’s absolutely a man problem for sure, but I think it’s not only a man problem. I think that there’s so much more to it. The cycle of abuse and the psychology of abused. If you’ve been abused in childhood, you’re far more likely to be in an abusive relationship as an adult. And that’s not necessarily the abuser’s fault. It’s also the psychology- I mean it is. In addition to that, the psychology of yourself as a victim and allowing it to continue. It’s one reason why I hate when people say, “Why can’t she just leave? Why can’t she just walk away from this abusive relationship?” because that’s not how it works. The psychology of a victim, of someone who’s been systematically broken down and taught to believe they’re not worth anything, makes it very difficult to stand up for yourself.
PETTERSON: Okay, is there anything else you would like to say to our largely radical feminist and Lesbian feminist listeners?
SCHWARTZ: Absolutely. I wholeheartedly believe in feminism and females first and putting yourself in a position of confidence and self-worth and self-love and self-care. There is so much that we have left to do in this world, and eventually the old white men in power in the government are going to die off, and we’re going to be back in power, and it’s going to be amazing.
*Song interlude*
So speak out, speak over, speak under, speak through the noise
Speak loud so I can hear you, I want to know you, I want to hear your real voice
I want to hear your real voice
Your real voice
Your real voice
Your real voice
NATASH: Our next interview is with Shelly Ruzicka and Rocio Caravantes. Shelly Ruzicka is the Communications & Operations Director at Arise Chicago, a Workers’ Rights Center that builds partnerships between faith communities and workers to fight workplace injustice through education, organizing, and advocating for public policy changes. Rocio Caravantes is a Mexican immigrant who’s lived in Chicago for 11 years. She has spoken up about sexual harassment in the hospitality industry, and participated in creating an online video campaign which aims to educate other Spanish-speaking workers on what to do in cases of sexual abuse on the job.
Shelly RUZICKA: My name is Shelly Ruzicka. I’m the communications director at Arise Chicago. We’re a local workers’ rights organization here in Chicago, and our membership is primarily low age immigrant women from the Latina and Polish communities, though we do support any worker who walks in our door, but again based mostly in the Polish and Latino communities here in Chicago. We partner with workers along the spectrum, from workers in some of the lowest paid, least regulated industries, things like domestic work, small construction, manufacturing, commercial cleaning, restaurants. We partner with workers who maybe have not been paid the full minimum wage, who have experienced sexual harassment or discrimination, and support those workers to take action on the job. We also have support from the religious community to support those workers and their campaigns, and that varies from direct workplace negotiations to improve things like wages to pushing for policies at the city, county, and state level. Then support workers also if they want to have more permanent changes to unionize and then support workers in those campaigns or, once they are unionized, fighting for good contracts. That’s the long but short summary of who we are and what we do here at Arise Chicago.
PETTERSON: How does the #MeToo Movement fit into the mission of your organization?
RUZICKA: At Arise Chicago, we were really excited to hear about this happening, because it brought to light something that many of us know have existed forever for women and particularly for low wage women who often face very high rates of sexual harassment at work. We were thrilled that this was really coming to the public eye and to be talked about more in ways that it hasn’t been in the past. It also really sparked some interesting conversation among our members. We actually started filming a video that was inspired sadly by the 2016 presidential election.
Many of our members were feeling concerned about being women, about being immigrants, about being workers under the new administration. We decided, what’s one thing we can do as an organization, and we decided to create a video about sexual harassment at work back in the fall of 2016. We started recording for that video in the early fall of 2017, and the first stories about #MeToo had just come out a couple days before we started that filming, so our members had a very interesting, organic discussion about, “What does this mean for us as low wage workers?” feeling surprised to hear that the same type of thing they’d experienced had happened to, at least the first stories, essentially rich, white, powerful women in Hollywood, that they maybe didn’t think had had the same experiences.
It sparked this very interesting conversation about solidarity among women especially across class, which was very exciting to us as well: how can this be a new moment that is bigger and broader even just than sexual harassment at work, which is in and of itself a huge thing, but to say, how can we talk about solidarity among women workers across industry, across class and identity in a very interesting way. Arise Chicago, we see ourselves as a feminist organization, and that the types of policies that we pursue as well as the women obviously that we’re supporting and make up our membership, all of those things being related, so again just having something that’s so important and has been going on for our members for so long being even more public we see as an opportunity.
PETTESON: What is the name of that video that your organization put together, started putting together before the #MeToo Movement got started and then serendipitously it could include the #MeToo Movement? What is the name of that video, and where can our listeners find it?
RUZICKA: It’s of course posted on our website which is AriseChicago.org [recording error] -adows: Workers Speak Out Against Sexual Harassment.
PETTERSON: “Out of the Shadows: Workers Speak Out Against Sexual Harassment”?
RUZICKA: Yes.
PETTERSON: Okay, cool. You faded out a little bit there, so I just wanted to be sure I got that title correct. I love that your organization is seeing it as an opportunity to grow a solidarity movement across class amongst women. I think that’s a beautiful vision. Is there anything else you want to say about what the #MeToo Movement means?
RUZICKA: Talking amongst ourselves with staff, taking with friends, talking to our female members, again was just really inspiring conversation of thinking in a new way, of: how do women across class come together and say, “This has been happening, again, since forever for women. This is not new.” I think that’s a really important point a lot of folks who are speaking out are trying to share, to say, “This is not a new problem.” Just because women are being more public now does not mean that it’s happening at a higher rate. It means it’s been happening before, but women have felt silenced for a variety of reasons. We’ve talked a lot about that here, too…
We’ve talked to women, hearing from them that, “Yeah, I work in this crappy job at a restaurant where I’m verbally harassed and expected or required to wear a certain type of clothing, but I have kids to take care of. I don’t have other job options. If I speak up, I’m going to get fired.” So how women feel silenced in that way, to when women do speak up and do something at their job and take action. Sometimes coming to a conclusion often means having some type of legal settlement that might include a confidentiality clause so they cannot talk about what happened to them. How that just yet another way of silencing women.
You finally have the courage to come forward and take action, and you’re silenced once again. How do we ever stop this cycle if there’s continuing barriers for women to speak up. One of the things we’re excited about is there’s so much public support and momentum. How can women refuse to be silenced, whether that means breaking confidentiality agreements, because it’s ridiculous, and it means perpetrators can go on perpetrating because they don’t get to be named? How do we change things about requirements of confidentiality agreements? Looking at policies, and of course just really changes in society.
We all know there’s so much that can be done, but the things that are exciting are: there’s finally this public attention, there’s finally much more belief of women coming forward in a way that I don’t think we’ve seen, at least in my generation or lifetime. Women are being believed more, which is sad it’s taken this long. Then again this idea of solidarity across class. There’s just so much potential for things to happen, and it’s going to take women like our members who face some of the biggest barriers speaking up to really make that change possible.
PETTERSON: Yeah, kudos to you, and also all of those women for having the courage to organize and to come together and to speak out. Thank you so much, Shelly. (Thistle speaking to Rocio CARAVANTES) Hola, Rocio! Mi nombre es Thistle Petterson.
[Thistle’s interview with Rocio Caravantes is conducted entirely in Spanish. WLRN members Natasha and Julia provide English translations in the podcast. Below is the text of the English translation.]
PETTERSON: Hello Rocio! My name is Thistle Pettersen It is a pleasure to meet you over the internet. Can you tell us your name and how you got involved in the #METOO movement?
Rosio CARAVANTES: My name is Rocio Caravantes and I began to be involved through the support of organizations and one thing led to another and now we won’t stop. There have been many interviews that have asked us about our involvement.
PETTERSON: That’s great. What are the specific challenges immigrant women face in reporting sexual abuse at the workplace?
CARAVANTES: Well, yes. One of the main challenges for us is language which is related to a lack of understanding of the laws and also just fear – the fear that you won’t be believed. It can be with your boss, when you begin to talk, or with that cousin of yours who says that you provoked the abuse. This fear of not being believed is one of the main reasons we don’t report abuse.
PETTERSON: Yes. How did you decide to talk publicly about your experiences of sexual abuse? What do you hope to achieve by speaking about your experiences publicly?
CARAVANTES: Well, to be able to talk about it took a long time. Right now, let’s say I am free of the situation which is why I feel I can talk about my past experiences, but when the person is living in the situation, it’s a bit more difficult. This is why I want to keep speaking out, because you could say that I am in a little bit better place to do so. Also, part of why I feel free to talk is because now is a time period where people are listening to us. For example this radio station, or other organizations that are asking us for interviews. This gives women the courage to speak about our experiences. Maybe not right now, but perhaps with time, once other women have healed a bit more, they will speak too.
PETTERSON: How did your boss respond when you decided to speak publicly?
CARAVANTES: Well, currently, my bosses are not my bosses. This is in part why I feel free to talk. So, I have not had to face them or hear their commentary, but if they were to hear me, I am sure they would not be happy with what I am saying. Right now, I am living in a better phase of my life in terms of work. I can be around men and work with them and I feel completely free. I actually never thought there could be such a workplace in the past, because all of my other workplaces were abusive. The bosses would manipulate and bully us workers – always with power over women – including some women over other women, competing for the work.
PETTERSON: Yes, well, congratulations that you are in a better place and that you can talk. It is very important for women to be able to talk. The women who began the #METOO movement, many of them, are Hollywood stars. What do they have in common with immigrant women? How can women of different backgrounds, different social statuses and economic power, unify to work together?
CARAVANTES: I think we have a lot in common because those women in Hollywood have emigrated from their place of birth to go to Hollywood to pursue their cinema goals. They live in Hollywood, but they have come from all over. We have in common that we don’t like that our bodies are used for the purpose of… well, the purpose of power over women. The power to decide if you get a job or not – not based on your qualifications, but based on your body and that you are a woman. There are lots of actresses who are good for this or that job, just like there are immigrant women who are good for this or that job, but the decision about who gets the job is often not based on your qualifications, but rather if they think you have a pretty face or nice body or if you are the right color or race. A lot of times, people in power confuse your race and think you are Mexican when really you are from Guatemala, for example, but they don’t care. And that’s how they function: not seeing your qualities as a person, as a worker.
PETTERSON: Yeah, and the truth is that the majority of the people in these positions of power are men and the majority of the workers are women. This is an injustice and inequality of power. What do you think of this inequality of power between men and women?
CARAVANTES: It is precisely this inequality of power that has gotten us into this situation we’re in today, where men are the ones who commit the majority of violence against women, because if 50% of the people in power were women and 50% men, you’d find that you could report on the abuse of power of women. This inequality has brought us here, because in Latino families, it is the woman who supports the family economically in most situations. The reason women are treated poorly at the workplace is because we are the ones who are working, not the men. And at work, it is the men who have the positions of power. For example, in all of the years that I worked, I only had one woman in the position of boss. And that’s why I can’t say that it was a woman who abused her power. If I had an equal number of female bosses as male bosses, let’s say 5 female bosses and 5 male bosses, maybe we would see more accusations of women abusing power.
If it was as many men working to support their families as there are women – working extra hours, feeding the family – things would be different. But men feel less obligated to support their families, so it is up to the women to make sure our children can get ahead. This is why women are speaking out. A lot of the time I had to tolerate yelling and humiliations at work, because I needed to be able to bring home food for my family. And this is the inequality. Men won’t tolerate this kind of abuse at work. I mean, yes, men are bullied too, but since they often don’t feel the obligation like women do to support the family economically, they have the courage to not tolerate this kind of abuse at work. And if men do have the role of supporting the family economically, they don’t seem to take it as seriously as women do. I think this is inequality.
PETTERSON: Thank you so much. Do you have anything else you’d like to say to our listeners who are largely radical feminists and lesbians?
Ro CARAVANTES: Well, it is funny to me that you say “lesbians.” What I want to say to all women is that with the movement, the important thing is to speak, to speak and to not be afraid, because now is the moment to lead the way for all of the other women that will come after us. It is precisely this moment, this noise that we are making of women talking to women and speaking out that will bring us justice. I don’t think you need to be a feminist or a lesbian or anything. You just need to be a woman with courage to speak out, because this is what will move us forward.
*Song interlude*
Que esta pasando señores
que se ha perdido el respeto
hay tantos niños y madres
tantos hogares en llanto
Porque esa piel que les daba
tanto placer y alegría
hoy sufre bajo esa furia
salvaje incontenida
Ni una menos pide la sociedad
la mujer se debe valorar
son madres, son esposas
son hijas, la alegría del hogar
Ni una menos, ni uno más
por favor, que esto acabe de verdad
ni una menos, ni uno más
por favor, que esto acabe de verdad
Que esta pasando en tu vida
porque perdiste el control
porque a quien tanto querias
le causas tanto dolor
Ni una menos pide la sociedad
la mujer se debe valorar
son madres, son esposas
DIQUARTO: That was Angela Leiva with her song “Ni Una Menos.” You are listening to WLRN brought to you by the totally excellent radical feminists at Women’s Liberation Radio News.
BECK: Every girl learns from a very early age that her feelings do not matter, that her comfort and safety in this world are secondary to the pleasures of men. Girls and boys are groomed, or socialized, into different social roles according to stereotypes based on sex. Female socialization teaches girls to relinquish their bodily autonomy in favor of sexual objectification. And you know what? That’s patriarchal bullshit. Autonomy and sovereignty are fundamental to personhood, and men know this to be true. That’s why men use violence against women: to keep us in our patriarchal place.
Girls are told the lie that if a man hurts you, he does so because he likes you. This links cruelty to affection, which instigates a self-fulfilling prophecy of interpersonal violence. Some women and girls are even told they should ignore the men and boys who hurt them, like incestual fathers, uncles, brothers, and cousins. Yeah, right. As if ignoring syphilis makes it go away. Nobody’s problems are solved that way.
The dominant culture advises women and girls to forgive and forget male abusers, but this is a message of futility that fortifies female oppression. The only fool-proof way of eliminating the threat of male violence is to eliminate men, at least from women’s lives. But many women are economically dependent on men, so female separatism isn’t always immediately feasible without the support of other women. Women do not always have the power to stop or avoid male violence, so our last resort is simply to share information about male abusers.
The web of information that women build sharing information is dubbed as a “whisper network.” Think of the game telephone. It’s one of the oldest strategies for women to use as protection from male violence, especially in the circumstance of dependence on men. Coincidentally, this strategy is countered by a key tenant of misogyny: the distrust of women.
We have seen great improvements on this front with the general public believing so many women in the recent #MeToo Movement, but it’s still risky for many women to come forward with allegations of abuse, especially when their abuser holds sexist or racist power over them. Tarana Burke took that risk when she founded this movement. Here is a clip of Burke sharing her motivations with Amy Goodman from Democracy Now:
Tarana BURKE: I have been working with young people for more than 25 years, and I’ve worked in the South in 2007. As a survivor of sexual violence myself, as a person who was struggling, trying to figure out what healing looked like for me, I also saw young people, particularly young women of color, in the community I worked with struggling with the same issues. And trying to find a succinct way to show empathy. We use a term called “empowermental empathy,” and “Me Too” is so powerful, because somebody had said it to me, and it changed the trajectory of my healing process once I heard that.
Because the rape crisis centers in the community I was working didn’t go out to the schools, they didn’t do outreach- I’m an organizer by training- it made sense to me you have to bring it to people. People are not going to seek it out. MeToo was about reaching in the places that other people wouldn’t go, bringing messages and words of encouragement to survivors of sexual violence where other people wouldn’t be talking about it…
I say it all the time. I’m never surprised by these allegations. For every R. Kelly or Bill Cosby or Harvey Weinstein there’s the owner of the grocery store, the coach, the teacher, the neighbor who are doing the same things, but we don’t pay attention until it’s a big name. We don’t pay attention until it’s a big celebrity. But this work is ongoing, because this is pervasive.
BECK: Women’s allegations of abuse by men with very high profiles have flooded the media for about six months now. Despite this deluge, the waves are bittersweet. Women would not have to whisper to each other about male violence if they weren’t under the threat of it in the first place. And even though whisper networks are effective, they rely on social privileges that only some women have.
Not all whisper networks are created equal. Whisper networks, social circles, and even entire movements made up of only white women, or only women with six figure incomes, are doomed to replicate the same racist and classist structures that patriarchy created in the first place! Women’s knowledge of and protection from male violence should not depend on the color of our skin or what we have in the bank. This kind of information shouldn’t be treated like a privilege. It’s a necessity for female survival.
Thankfully, social movements are built from more than just whispers. In this digital age, women all over the world have a newfound capability of wielding information using the internet. Social media shapes public opinion, not just by amplifying women’s voices, but also by the speed at which information is shared. Women like Tarana Burke can start movements with a single hashtag, and others who don’t dare speak a feminist word can do so anonymously.
Hashtag movements like #MeToo and #SayHerName have great influence on digital platforms, but these platforms, like whisper networks, still rely on privilege. Not all women have access to the internet, much less access to clean water. Technology is expensive and often built from materials that are sourced by child labor. And most digital platforms are owned and controlled by men. But women don’t have to use the internet to join the conversation.
Women can participate in the women’s movement by writing, singing, acting, dancing, drawing, protesting, and more. All you need to do is get people talking. Instigate conversation in locations where the people are: in bathroom stalls, in the middle of parades, and at public hearings. Just as a side note, several states are introducing bills that legalize female erasure by allowing men to identity as female people. If you think men in your state won’t try to strike women from the record, you need to think again. Take this as a warning to make sure your voice is heard.
When women speak up and speak out about these kinds of abuses, people do take notice. All the male backlash to feminism only proves the necessity of this movement. Women are using bite-size hashtags to critique male violence for all the world to see. The #MeToo Movement exemplifies the power of female informants: women who spread the news no matter the backlash.
Even though technology gets more advanced every day, the message women are sending is not new. Women have been speaking against misogyny like male violence for millennia, but it’s a very effective form of oppression. Women like Anita Hill who follow every line of protocol for reporting sexual abuse are denied the retribution they seek by those conventional means. The misogynist distrust of women is so ingrained in global society we even have myths about it: Cassandra the prophet was cursed by a male god to never be believed. Why do we hear so much about all the little boys who cry wolf and so little about the Cassandras of our time?
Over ten years passed before #MeToo hit mainstream. The hashtag went viral last fall when Alyssa Milano, a colleague of Rose McGowan, wanted to show her friend some support during the Weinstein takedown. Milano tapped into the energy of the moment, as well as into her fan-base, to catapult the phrase onto screens everywhere. Celebrities echoed the sentiment, promoting the hashtag to their own fan-bases, until every social platform was flooded with women’s stories of abuse as well as the predictable male backlash.
Women’s voices echoed in solidarity. The surge of stories about male violence helped shine a light on numerous scandals, mostly sexual in nature, all at the hands of men. But not every scumbag has gotten what’s coming to him. Many predators, like Donald Trump, have yet to answer for crimes we know they did. We are taking small steps toward social change in sectors where many of the female victims have the most money and the largest platform to fight back, like in Hollywood and TV. This wave of truth-telling is glorious. Finally women are believed! But this is not the watershed we need.
For every one Weinstein whose exploits make the front page, there are thousands more male abusers who are never named. This movement to #NameTheProblem needs to trickle on down from high-profile positions to the service industries and the domestic realm, to the family, and the institution of heterosexual marriage itself, places where women are abused by men day in and day out.
In patriarchal systems such as ours, women are encouraged to love, have sex with, cover for, and take care of men, no matter how violent they are. Men believe progeny is their god-given right, so it’s no surprise this system supports a culture of rape. Our lives are saturated with pornographic imagery: real women are coerced into portraying male fantasies that deny our very humanity. Everywhere you look, from toddler-size fishnet stockings to big-screen sadist trilogies, rape culture is there. But we might not be able to see it at first glance. In order to accept terrible things, our consciousness must first become desensitized. Recent movements to sanitize prostitution and the global sex trade do exactly that.
The #MeToo movement gave us a peek at the insidiousness of rape. Everybody knows rape is bad, and most men could agree. Rape is usually thought of as a violent act, but how many of us could recognize rape when it doesn’t fit the narrative of brute force by a stranger? How many of us could recognize rape if it happened not in a dark alleyway but in our own bed? Rape is a political issue. Rape is a tactic of war. Rape is an issue of men’s false entitlement to sexual intercourse with women. When men are socialized to be violent and strong, and when women are socialized to be quiet and soft, rape doesn’t just “happen” out of the blue. Rape is embodied in blueprint of male supremacy. Rape is considered a natural occurrence, as a normal hazard of female life, so much so that women are trained from birth on ways to avoid it. But how are we supposed to avoid rape when every situation and every location where men are allowed holds that threat?
We hear a lot about “consent,” but how relevant is that concept when every decision a woman makes is in the context of patriarchal norms? Social forces, like the pornographic media, influence every choice a woman makes, including the choice of when, if ever, to sexually engage with men. Where is the line between consent and coercion in a culture that socializes women to never say, “No”? In a culture that says consent is “sexy” rather than required. Can the concept of consent even be applied legitimately to relationships in which social and political power is not balanced? In relationships between members of the oppressed sex class and their oppressors?
We could save a lot of the energy spent teaching women avoidance tactics by going to the source of this problem. Women deserve more than avoidance tactics, anyway. The problem is men. Rape would not happen if men did not rape. It doesn’t matter if women are naked or drunk. Men still rape women who wear burkas and women who are sober. The majority of rapists are men, and the majority of victims of rape are women, so you can miss me with that bullshit saying women are rapists too. Women don’t rape eight-month old babies or corpses in the morgue. No wonder so many sisters are calling themselves something other than “woman” these days. If only opting-out oppression wasn’t a fantasy constructed by the same supremacist logic that reinforces women’s subjugated station in life.
It’s not astonishing for women to hear about the prevalence of sexual abuse in professional industries. It’s also not astonishing that, by the American brand of white supremacy, a white woman was credited for a black woman’s movement. Most of the people who’ve come forward with allegations of male violence have been white women with already-established careers. We have yet to see a flood of prominent figures publicly stand with the victims of icons like Russell Simmons.
Shanita Hubbard of the New York Times pointed out the mental gymnastics that many people do to watch Woody Allen films or attend R. Kelly concerts, “despite years of reports about [these men] victimizing young girls.” Hubbard says this cognitive dissonance is established by male violence. She talks about a place “where some of the guys from the neighborhood would stand around, play music… and then, suddenly, turn into dangerous predators when young girls walked by. On this intersection, like so many others in the world, your body and sense of safety were both up for grabs.” But these men who abuse young girls are also victims of state-sanctioned abuse. Police brutality and criminal injustice evoke a community response that “calls for the protection of these young men, and rightfully so. A community is right to fight against over-policing… But when your community fights for those same people who terrorize you…. it tells you that perhaps you are not a victim, because those who are harming you are also being harmed and we need to focus our energy on protecting them. After all, their lives are at stake… How can these women who live at the proverbial intersection of race and sexism, who grew up crossing that corner, ever be a part of the [conversation] when they can’t be heard in their own community?”
Women don’t need knights in shining armor to save us from violence or the threat of it, because more often than not they are its source. It’s dangerous for women to trust any man in this society when so many of them use images of women in pain just to cum. What women need is a fucking break. Andrea Dworkin said it best at the Midwest Regional Conference of the National Organization for Changing Men. She said:
“As a woman, I carry my own rape with me. Do you remember pictures that you’ve seen of European cities during the plague, when there were wheelbarrows that would go along and people would just pick up corpses and throw them in? Well, that is what it is like knowing about rape. Piles and piles and piles of bodies that have whole lives and human names and human faces.
I speak for many feminists, not only myself, when I tell you that I am tired of what I know and sad beyond any words I have about what has already been done to women up to this point, now, up to 2:24pm on this day, here in this place.
And I want one day of respite, one day off, one day in which no new bodies are piled up, one day in which no new agony is added to the old, and I am asking you to give it to me. And how could I ask you for less–it is so little. And how could you offer me less: it is so little. Even in wars, there are days of truce. Go and organize a truce. Stop your side for one day. I want a twenty-four-hour truce during which there is no rape.
I dare you to try it. I demand that you try it. I don’t mind begging you to try it. What else could you possibly be here to do? What else could this movement possibly mean? What else could matter so much?”
Male violence prevails in every social setting that is inclusive of male people. Male violence is a risk of sharing physical spaces with men, but the way spaces are shared between women and men is usually not up for debate. Women are often denied the ability to set boundaries for themselves. Women, until very recently, had no say on what happened in the home or in the bed.
The story of Aziz Ansari chasing a woman around his apartment to jam his fingers down her throat helped us focus for a moment on reality. Horrible episodes of male entitlement, like what Ansari did, are possible in a culture that normalizes rape. So many women can relate to that feeling of uneasiness around men, to that gut instinct to run away. And yet so many of us share the experience of being confused, of sticking around with a man who ends up hurting us, because we see no way out. Self-doubt is a big downside to being socialized female.
Every woman’s voice should be heard, but not every woman receives the same support for speaking up. What does this disproportionality say about who is believed and why? What is it going to take for us to take black women seriously? When will we learn to listen to our sisters, so that we can work together to improve the movements of tomorrow?
We women need to step up. No men will save us. We can’t even be sure they will stop. There are a few good men out there, and they might try to challenge their brothers, but we cannot depend on those few good men to overthrow male supremacy. Men as a class are not going to relinquish their power over women willingly. Women, for the most part, we’re on our own. We need to protect, heal, defend, and love each other. The women with the most must share with women with the least. So to answer the question, are the men ever going to stop? The answer is yes: when they are forced. Women are that force. We take our own freedom. We are the ones we have been waiting for.
NATASHA: That ends another edition podcast for WLRN. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Tumblr, where we keep our followers up to date on the latest feminist content and women’s headlines. Find our Facebook page, titled Women’s Liberation Radio News, and our Twitter, @radfemradio. Our tumblr is womensliberationradionews. I’m Natasha, thanks for listening.
PETTERSON: We hope you enjoyed today’s podcast as much as we enjoyed putting it together. Next month WLRN celebrates 2 years of independent women’s media. If you are interested in joining our team, go to the “Volunteer for WLRN” tab on our WordPress site and click to find instructions for how to apply. We are looking for more women to take the mic, write articles, do editing, interviews and more! We always release our handcrafted podcasts the first Thursday of every month. Tune in on Thursday, April 5th, for our 24th Edition on Women Creators and Sustainers. I’m Thistle Pettersen. Hasta luego!
SEKHMET: If you’d like to get in touch with us, you can send us an email to wlrnewscontact@gmail.com. I’m Sekhmet She Owl, signing off from our March 1st, 2018, 23rd edition podcast dedicated to an analysis of the #MeToo Movement and Rape Culture. Our guests were Jyssica Schwartz whose book, You Are Not Alone, will be released March 14th, Shelly Ruzicka and Rocio Caravantes from Arise Chicago Workers’ Rights Center. Thank you to our guests, for flying the friendly skies of WLRN’s airwaves. Son buenas hondas!
BECK: We are 100% volunteer-powered, independent, radical feminist radio, and we thank you for listening. If you’d like to donate to WLRN, go to our WordPress site, wlrnmedia.wordpress.com, and click “donate.” While you’re there, check out past editions, extended interviews, and our awesome music hour released every other Monday from WLRN contributor Phoenixx. Until next time, this is Julia.
DIQUARTO: Today’s podcast was produced in love and solidarity by yours truly. This is Jenna, over and out.
*Song interlude*
But how will we find our way out of this?
What is the antidote for the patriarchal kiss?
How will we find what needs to be shown?
And then after that, where is home?
Where is my home?
‘Cause gender hurts!